I have 2 rules,
If you do not read anything else in this website, know this.
IF IT IS NOT IN THE BID,
YOU WILL NOT GET IT.
- IF IT IS NOT IN THE BLUEPRINTS,
YOU WILL NOT GET IT.
The End.
When do you get a bid?
…only after YOU have done your 3D drawings…
This takes about a year…with a few passes by your architect/engineer, AND you know this is the house you want.. no more changes.
See?…this is why it can take a year or two!) AND you can still back out.. you have not made any grievous errors yet.
Your drawings will be down to the inch!
Each door, each window, each wall, each view, each stair, elevator, ceiling, each hall, the bathroom, kitchen, appliances, electric outlets are all FIXED… SEE? A year is just barely enough time…
IFF you did it right, AND you have let it rest, and return to it after a month of two of percolating in the back of your mind…go slow…(link)
Anyway, after you give the architect your drawings, and the architect presents you with final drawings…..THEN you are able to intelligently approach a contractor…not before….this is truly about a 12 to 18 month process. (remember, you have to learn SketchUP software, which in itself takes time & trouble shooting… YOU gotta really want this…..!)
But you will NOT just have blueprints…
You will have room-by-room specs.
It has to be done sometime, might as well do it now….while you can still change your mind…you are not on a clock, paying construction loan interest.
Examples.
You will buy the paint…not get the cheaper paint the painter gets.
You will buy the tile, the metal edges, the grout!
You will buy the appliances, toilet, sinks, faucets, sinks, hoods tub.
You will get a bid on windows & doors & hinges and doorknobs…hardware… a massive hard job, with lots of decisions…. Do you want your mistakes?, or live with your contractors mistakes? …. shortcuts.. At least specify brand, sash, size etc…
You must pick out siding color, and a roof that matches! (Biggest mistake is not having the roof, match the siding… done all time….drive around a observe..)
These things can hang up a job… AND by you buying these things, forces YOU to know what you want too.
If your contractor wants a % of all this prebuying…. get another contractor.
These decisions and commitments takes YOU a lot of time.. time he can better use baby sitting a less competent homeowner
Sure,hHe can bump up his bid taking in account you have done all this prep work…(or lower the bid, knowing he is dealing with an intelligent client, that might let this job proceed with less hickups..who knows.
I’d rather work with intelligent, rather that an idiot… so might he.
Get help from an Interior Decorator…!
AND to do a lot of these decisions, you really should get the advice of aninterior decorator. She will guide you on stuff you just don’t care about… till you make a mistake…
Floor stain color (to go with what furniture you have) ceiling color & sheen,
Hardware… do you really want black hinges and doorknobs? Or gold, or silver?
Wall colors, shine, crown molding colors, tile colors, cabinet colors, and wood type… SURE… YOU can research all this out… learn by your mistakes…or fold in an experienced interior decorator WITH your ideas…..and make a few less mistakes.
This is not highfalutin, but intelligently cautious.
If you went with a great experience contractor… he would include this by default…. but if you are on the edge with money… you will have to justify this to yourself, this expense.
Again, this is all about going slow, the dreaming stage….a stage you can still back out…you can just sell your house, or rent… till 10 or 20 years later, when building can be afforded (time and money wise) at the right time of your life.
REALLY… NOT renovating & just moving might be the most wonderful decision you can ever make… buying a new track house, with NO deferred maintenance… might buy you a lot of free time to raise your kids, go to school, do your primary job. To avoid a 5-year nightmare, that can bankrupt you, or destroy your marriage or family will be a great bullet dodged…
Calm down, wait till its time…it just might not be right now…
Keep drawing, just for fun…your time will come eventually….and dreams cost nothing… and keep the edge off of tripping over dogs and shoes, and not enough storage… this will pass, bankruptcy won’t… that will destory your family!
(BTW…even when things go well, a building or renovation is so stressful, it will take over a year afterwards to get over the PTSD of having your life & money & dreams controlled by others every minute. You have to weight these stresses now against the decade or two of peaceful living later on.
BID
If you prepare an honest project plan, your contractors will be able to bid correctly, and neither side will be taken advantage of…and the project will go thru more intelligently, with less back and forth communication errors…
You might leave “extras” off your project, thinking it will be done later…. (I left off my driveway…ugh…. only later learning the bank will not close on the house, till I had the driveway ….all cash…$20K). After 15 months of construction, I was nearly tapped.
So, no. Don’t defer things.
If it is NOT on the BID, you WILL NOT get it. The Bid is the bible…
Any addition later, is a change order….and you have no leverage on a Change Order… you are at the mercy of your contractors whim.. $$$
When you are getting bids, this is the ONE time, when the contractor will be trying to get the job, at the lowest price, so he CAN get the job….
As you survey your choices of contractors or Architects, you will have a spectrum of experience and price.
If you can afford the best…well, your project is exponentially easier!
The best will not only have great advice, and an in-house team of workers working together…
More likely, no one has enough money, to get the great dream house they hope for…So, you must compromise.
You have to be more involved, learn their trades, learn the unknown, unknowns on your own…predict problems. You will have to know how banks work, how appraiser work…(a bad appraisal means you will NOT be able to borrow as much as you need…)
Know too, each of these people are 1000 times more experienced than you…so you must over-compensate this with educating yourself…this website tries to bring up as many of these ideas as I can….not a HOW TO…but just brings to you some awareness of ideas to think about, before you proceed.
SOME THINGS CAN WAIT…OR NOT!
Side note…
(but you CAN leave off things you can do a few years from now…but keep in mind, you will have to pay real cash for future work, or a HELOC, …so anything you can do during this construction, will be leveraged money, paid off over 30 years…not real money… so $10,000 job now, will cost you an extra $35/month… or $420per year. It takes a long time to save up $10,000 cash… so consider borrowing as much as you can, at the 4% loan rate for 30 years..
Also, once you are done with this renovation, or new house build…you will NOT want to face, plan, schedule, bid, observe, check on, and pay another contractor or worker. You will want to be left in peace for a few years, and get your serenity back.
THE CONTRACTORS POINT OF VIEW
If each homeowner picks 1 contractor out of 5 they interview…then a contractor has a 20% success rate….
A detailed bid, based on some blueprints and interview will take a few hours to a day to do… for a quick ballpark idea if there is a fit.
So, before a bid is written up, a contractor will visit the house, and see if there is chemistry…. see if it is worth the effort.
An experienced contractor will have HUGE holes in the bid, allowing him to change the price, as complications or changes happen. This is just the nature of projecting a complex, dynamic project, with human beings.
HUGE holes means lots of wiggle room, TBD, this is not bad…. this is a preliminary bid, to see if you are approaching a match. YOU have to give specifics for him to complete this bid… it is a back and forth process.
But let’s start at the beginning…. actually, LOOKING at 5 different bids, for the same project…. there are no rules, no format, so comparing one bid to another is fascinating… (aka Apples to Oranges)
Bids are the WILD WEST….
Since polite people do not speak of money…we will be indiscreet and layout the money here. In Tulsa, you can take away a zero, in LA, you can add a zero. In Atlanta, the going rate for building or renovation is about $300/sr….so a 1000sf addition is 3000K, a 2000sf addition is 600K… like that.
These bids are to just show you the different styles you will run into.
There is a spectrum of Contractors’ ability and experience.
There is the beginner, eager and optimistically underbidding to “get the job”.
And there is the experienced contractor that knows what a nightmare they are in for, and bids accordingly.
All contractors dream of a client with no concern about money and will be out of the country during the whole process. I think you need about 20 or 30 years of experience to land that client… till then, you are climbing this Sisyphean hill.
See? Clients are on a spectrum too.
Each contractor has different styles of writing out a bid.
Here are some examples.
Example 1. The lots of words guy
303Kbid 2
Scope of Work: Home Addition
- Permit/ Survey/ Engineering: $5,500
- Erosion Control: Install silt fence and tree save fencing. Install and maintain wheat straw through out the project as required. $3,900
- Demolition: Remove and dispose of existing deck structure, storage room, garage, necessary siding/ cornice, and rear roof structure (to main gable). $23,600
- Grading: Grade rear of residence to prep for new basement slab grade (Dispose of garage foundation, necessary landscape materials, and spread additional dirt to rear yard. Backfill poured foundation walls using existing soil materials. $17,900
- Foundation walls and Slab: Pour foundation footings, foundation wall (stepping down with grade), and slab. $25,970
- Waterproofing: Waterproof poured foundation wall and install foundation drains. Install waterproofing membrane (Mel- Rol/ Basf HLM 5000) to the new deck framing protecting finished basement area below. $6,800
- Framing: Frame new basement, first floor, and roof structure tying into existing ridge beam per architect plans. Install 5/4 deck boards and handrail using pressure treated material. $48,850
- Roof shingles: Install new 30 year architectural (GAF or Comparable) shingles to the existing roof structure and added roof surface area. Install “Tiger Paw” synthetic underlayment including all flashing and plumbing pipe jacks. Install Cobra ridge vent to the main ridge and rear gable. $15,626
- Windows/ Exterior Doors: Install windows and exterior doors per the architectural plan. Note: Windows will need to be priced upon architectural plan completion. Allowance: $15,000
- Siding and Cornice: Install house wrap the new framed and exposed exterior walls. Install hardi shake style panels to new structure matching existing. Install primed pine cornice to the new framing. (Note: 1×8 standard hardi on the sides and rear is a savings option). $20,800
- Plumbing: Install new tank less hot water heater tying into existing supply/ drain/ sewer lines. Install plumbing drain (Sched. 40) and supply lines (PEX Piping) supplying new bathroom locations (Basement slab plumbing and first floor bath). Install first floor and basement baths including walk in shower, tub (Allowance $800), vanity, and toilet. Install basement bath including vanity, walk in shower, tub ($800) and toilet. Plumbing fixtures priced with Moen Branford faucets/ shower valve and trim, Kohler elongated toilets, and standard oval under mount sinks. $17,400
- HVAC: Install Mitsubishi 20,000 BTU multi zone mini split air conditioning system to supply the first floor addition. $14,200
- Electrical: Demo necessary wiring for addition. Install new sub panel providing power for the addition. (Note: If service upgrade is necessary pricing will be provided). Install code compliant receptacles to the basement and first floor. Install overhead lighting Allowance: 4 fan light combos, 2 protected shower cans, 2 vanity lights, 6 flush mount lights, 12 can lights, 2 exterior sconces, two flood lights, and utility lighting for unfinished basement. Note: Customer to purchase light fixtures. $13,600
- Low Voltage: TBD
- Insulation: Install bat insulation to the exterior walls (basement and First floor). Insulate basement bath ceiling. Install spray foam insulation to the new and affected attic areas. $10,900
- Drywall: Install smooth finish drywall in the first floor of the addition and basement Bath. $8,450
- Interior Trim: Install new matching interior doors, baseboards, and crown molding to the first floor addition/ basement bath. $5,200
- Paint: Paint the interior (1st floor addition and the exterior) of the residence using Sherwin Williams Promar 200 paint (Semi-gloss on the trim, flat paint on the walls, and ceiling white. Paint basement bath and stain concrete slab. $16,750
- Tile: Install tile to the addition and basement baths including floor tile and shower enclosure tile. Allowance: $5 per square foot for tile material. $13,000
- Cabinets/ Tops: Install two 5’ vanity cabinets (GCG standard line) with level I granite (standard edge). $4,200
- Hardwood Flooring: Install 2 ¼” nail down site finish hardwood flooring to the first floor addition. Includes customer selected stain with three coats polyurethane. $8,640
- Interior Cleaning: Interior clean and construction debris removal through out project. $4,500
- Landscape Repair: Repair side and rear yard landscape. (Grade/ seed/ straw). $2,000
Total: $302,786
Example 2. all words, one number
Example 4. fill in the blank, bid
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Now you have interviewed 5 bids… they are likable, and friendly, and you have shared your dreams with them.
Now you have to kick them in the teeth and say no,
This is hard.
But you have to do it, I got nothing to make this easier.
Honestly, after a 15 month or longer construction job, both the homeowner and the contractor hate the sight of each other…
Too much water under the bridge…in each others pockets too long, too much lieing, deceit, shortcuts, delays, frustrations. UNLESS you are really rich, and can afford a great contractor that is all organized, with a great team, and you kinda don’t care too much about anythings…..just want the job done….whenever… Like an investment property….
But when the job can actually bankrupt you, and your life is completely in their control… things can get tense…
Add Your Heading Text Here
This is the subject about BIDs.
You have to front load in detail and drawing everything you want. …
See the unknown unknowns,
See nightmare
Etc,.
The home owners point of view...
But…I DID leave a HUGE thing out….. after you interview the contractor…you HAVE TO INTERVIEW A JOB HE HAS DONE IN THE PAST.
You just HAVE to!
I know it is uncomfortable to even ask a contractor for references…BUT YOU HAVE TO… They know it, and should have a list ready for you… You are not the first one to ask this question…he will not be surprised….you will not shock him…. this is just NORMAL… so DO IT! be bold…
When you visit one of his jobs, WALK thru the house…get past the polite niceties with the homeowners… let the new homeowner resurrect some problems or greatness as they walk thru their house, their renovation etc… Let their memory of this distressing time rise up and you will learn something….OR YOU WILL LIVE TO REGRET IT!!!!
To avoid telling a contractor no… do your homework before even calling up a contractor…. be a detective.
Go to a paint store, and talk to some subs…who do they like?
Eat lunch where the subs eat.. talk to a few…
Visit local reno sites in your neighborhood…keep a log of builders, watch if the yard is clean..talk to people. If they have a sign in the front yard, they are proud of their work…if no sign…why?
Check a contractors Facebook page…google the bejesus out of them….
Go to your bank, the mortgage officer and ask what contractors they work with… did they keep to the schedule, or let a 1 year stretch into 18 months,…. (time IS money! ) A construction loan has a higher interest rate, than a mortgage loan….
After this, you will interview fewer people and have less people to say NO to… this is painful for both of you, and should be avoided… and you do not want to waste their time yours and avoid the emotional “its not you, its me” rejection thing. 🙂